“Welcome and thank you for inviting us to be present with you. We understood that there was a topic so we did our best to go find authority, those who would speak well on this subject. This is, as we understand it, an interactive evening taking on the purpose of religion, the purpose of a systemization of spiritual thought. We will attempt to give some perspective on this with a bit of background, but are very open to interactions and questions as we go. If there is something that you do not understand or if you wish further clarification, please ask. We will also invite other questions beyond the topic if you so wish after we pursue this for a little while. So, shall we begin?”
“Each of you has had some experience with some religion in the earth which has been your guide for spiritual thoughts at one time or another. The intent within any system of thought, whether it be Hindu, Catholic, Lutheran, or Buddhist, is to organize an awareness into a framework so that the conscious mind in this plane of mental understanding of things can be comprehended, can be spoken about, can be communicated. However, the intent of those who brought those thoughts in originally was never to keep the system of thoughts rigid or crystallized, but to bring an avenue, a way, a step-by-step progression to those who have lost their way, have lost awareness or consciousness of a transcendent being, a transcendent self. Religion was an attempt to guide the consciousness back to awareness.”
“Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, Krishna, all of the major avatars and great beings and teachers have come embodying the awareness. They spoke to those who noticed the awareness in them, who were drawn to their presence, who felt at peace when they were in their midst, who felt and experienced healing, wholeness. They felt more wholeness in their midst and they kept asking questions; “What does this mean? How do we become like you? How did you get this way?”, etc., and these beings would teach. They would begin to bring their awareness into forms that could be understood by the consciousness of the time, whenever and wherever they would happen to embody.”
“Usually after they left, or even at times while they were still around, ones recorded their experiences, recorded what they said, recorded their personal experiences and what they drew out of that. Those became bodies of thought and were usually put down either in an oral tradition or then later in a written tradition. They formed beliefs, and people then learned those beliefs and taught others, forming a religion. Religion is actually not so different than other systems of thought including science or technology, science being one where there is another thought that begins to be brought into form and taught to others by those who consider themselves knowledgeable.”
“Now, what happens in the breakdown is that if one studies the system of thought without embodying the awareness, there is a separation and then what begins to happen is crystallization of the thought. That then separates the person’s experience from what is being transmitted.”
“You all can perhaps remember two things. One, what a personal experience feels like where you are lifted beyond your every day spots and every day experiences to a personal experience of transcendence or a personal experience of awareness where there is something beyond what you can describe. That is what religion has been originally for, that is it’s intent. How many of you have that experience during an organized or religious ceremony or service, or teaching? Anyone have an experience like that, a transcendence experience doing such?”
I HAD ONE EXPERIENCE AT THE FUNERAL OF MY UNCLE. WE WERE GATHERED AFTERWARD IN HIS HOME WITH FAMILY AND I HAD AN EXPERIENCE OR FEELING THAT I HAD NEVER EXPERIENCED BEFORE, THE BEST WAY I GUESS I CAN PUT IT IS THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER PRESENCE IN THE ROOM AND IT WAS THERE MOMENTARILY, BUT IT WAS DEFINITELY THERE.
“Yes, that is an experience of what is beyond the typical framework, your perceptual field, and it says that there is more than what is perceived in the physical human field. What often has happened is that the experiences of transcendence have been separated out of religion and people have begun to search for them in different ways. Those who seek them oftentimes seek through drugs and sometimes through alcohol as a means of filling a hunger, a desire, a longing for some kind of direct personal knowing of that transcendent God experience. The religions that have been crystallized thought have been passed down or taught by those who have limited experience with transcendence themselves, but they know the teachings, the body of language, and that is what they teach. That is why other means have begun to be introduced in this last hundred years, and more and more so in the last ten years, as this age seeks to fulfill its longing, this longing that is not fulfilled in all of that which has been tried. Everyone has tried in some form or fashion to fill the emptiness, to make the self at ease. If it does not happen through what is tried, be it different forms of work or different forms of drugs, or different forms of activities, then there is an unsatisfied longing.”
“A part of an entire generation was born to set into motion this unfulfilled longing, and they are pursuing it. Many of them are doing so under meditation, looking at Eastern religion, looking at different avenues of spirituality, and when there is a need the universe responds. Channeling, or other forms of direct experience have begun to be more and more and more opened into the human experience. Actually, it is very old. Every ancient tradition and every primitive tradition has had some form of channeling, some form of direct transmission of energy. If it is not always specifically in words, sometimes it is just that energy. Shamans, medicine people, and other oracles in different traditions have had the ability to open to receive directly and then pass it on for the benefit of the whole, for the benefit of the community, for the benefit of those who are leading communities. Even those who are in government often consulted their oracles. Your forefathers in this Western world who were part of the Masons had at their disposal those who were guides in the mystery school that they studied. That was not so long ago and yet now there is a greater hunger and a greater longing.”
“Many of the religions have truth encoded within them. Truth is not that which you can comprehend and keep in a box, however. Has anyone ever succeeded in keeping truth in a box? Not likely. Not really. They might have tried.”
THERE IS AN ATTEMPT TO DO THAT, USUALLY FOR AN ULTERIOR MOTIVE.
“Yes, because that would give them some authority and power. But, it does not succeed because truth is ever present and it is always given in a direct experience. It is not something that you can take from another and say “Now I know the truth”, because you will not feel it. You will only be repeating something that someone else has said and there will be an emptiness within the self after a while. You will want to know what is this that is being sought and what is the direct awareness, direct experience, of something that is more than the human limited self has perceived through the senses.”
ARE YOU SAYING THAT IN REALITY ORGANIZED RELIGION HAS ESSENTIALLY CODIFIED THIS SEARCH FOR A HIGHER AWARENESS, BUT ALSO PERSONIFIED IT IN SUCH A WAY THAT A GOD, OR A BUDDHA, OR AN ALLAH ACTUALLY EXIST? OR ARE THEY SIMPLY DEVICES BY WHICH ORGANIZED RELIGION IS ABLE TO MAINTAIN FOCUS?
“There is one God, one Source of all. In order to relate into the human experience, the Source has taken on certain personifications, Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc. This gave an ability to bring transcendent experience to relate directly and bring the codification in directly. Putting that into, in a sense, a personalized guide has ultimately limited people’s direct experience. It may help in the beginning steps of the search, however, because ones like to be able to relate to something familiar, something that is like them. If it is like you in some way, if you have a picture of God that is God the Father, you relate to it from the human place.”
“However, the direct experience of transcendence is beyond any description of that. It is beyond a personification. It is usually indescribable, but very present, very real, and there are intuitive senses through the heart that pick up things that you don’t always directly see, but you know. Those senses are what are your channels, your capacities for direct personal experience. Love is the closest thing human beings experience to transcendence. When you open your hearts in love to another or you sit together in harmony or in peace, you are having a transcendent experience. Oftentimes it’s attached to a person, or being with a person, or focused on a person, but it is still transcendent. That is the closest avenue. So when we assist one in this plane, we open greater amounts of love and assist ones to relax into it, for that sets a certain field of energy which makes personal experience of the transcendent more possible. We don’t control it, we can’t, but each one opens and then it begins to open to them.”
ARE THE CODIFICATIONS SPECIFIED AS RELIGIOUS INSTITUTIONS SO THAT THEY CAN BE IN SOME MEASURE PRESENTED AS TRUTH, BUT THEY MAY NOT BE TRUTH OR AT LEAST THEY ARE HINDRANCES TO CONCEIVING TRUTH?
“It depends, truly it depends, on who presents the teaching. Do you remember Pope John XXIII? He carried a transcendent persona and he meditated, he prayed. He had direct experience of the transcendence and people knew that. He brought to earth that which he knew to be what he felt, and he felt that it was his directive from this connection to breathe some life into the codes, to shift things. His presence brought the energy through, not so much his words. His words assisted ones to comprehend what he was doing by being who he was.”
“Jesus did the same thing. His presence brought the energy into the experience of others who then experienced something more than they had experienced before. His words assisted them to understand what was happening. It is when you attach to the words rather than opening to the experience and the presence that things start to get boxed. Do you see? It’s not to say that many of the words don’t, in a sense, form a matrix that assist ones to understand aspects of much of the order of the universe, but there is no system that is complete. There cannot be. So if you stop with the system, you limit. There is always a limit.”
I THINK I EXPERIENCE THAT TRANSCENDENCE OFTEN WHEN I’M WORKING. WILL I FIND A TEACHER WHO WILL HELP ME LEARN TO BE ABLE TO CALL ON THAT MORE OFTEN?
“We can say that there are those who exist in the earth plane who have embodied the energy of this transcendence who can be of assistance to you and they are qualified to “teach”, although it is not that they teach anything to you because you are the one who is opening to the transcendence yourself. You are calling it in and you use others to assist you whose presence is already embodied, who set the energy field long enough for you to expand your capacity so that you might do the same. Do you understand the difference between that and a “teacher” who you perceive as giving it to you?”
YES, BUT WHERE WILL I FIND SUCH A PERSON?
“They are here and you can open to that in your vicinity and ask. It shows up. All you do is ask. That is one of the very basic things that religions don’t teach you very well, is that you always have a direct connection. Whether you experience it or not you always have a direct connection to this transcendence and this universe that is quite vast. All you have to do is ask for anything you desire or need and then open to a limitless possible range of how it can be brought to you into your experience.”
IT STRIKES ME THAT, AT LEAST ON THIS PLANE, THIS HUMAN PLANE, THE VARIOUS ORGANIZATIONS AND CODIFICATIONS OF THE CHURCH ATTEMPT TO CONTROL OUR DAILY LIVES, AND KEEP US–THROUGH THESE CODIFICATIONS–FROM SEEKING THE DIRECT LINE TO TRANSCENDING THIS PLANE. IT’S ACTUALLY A PREVENTION AND NOT A FACILITATION, WHICH MAY NOT BE WHAT THEY WERE DESIGNED TO DO ORIGINALLY, BUT THAT THEY HAVE ACTUALLY COME FULL CIRCLE AND BEEN MORE OF A BARRIER. MY QUESTION IS TO HAVE YOU COMMENT ON THAT AND THEN TO COMMENT ON HOW IS IT THEN THAT RELIGIOUS FAITH CAN BE UTILIZED IF IN FACT PREVENTION OF THE TRANSCENDENT EXPERIENCE IS THE RESULT?
“That is an excellent question. First, humans have been evolving. If you look at your last two hundred years and compare that to what was in the middle ages, and compare that to earlier times, there has been an evolution of the capacity of mind to comprehend, to apply, to create, etc. In the earlier times, ones could not utilize the mind in the same way. They did not have the capacity in a mental sense to think beyond the survival of their own body and their own community. There was a need for structure in some ways. A need to structure community. A need to structure those whose basic energy needs were survival. And so, the churches, the different churches and different traditions served a structuring role as well as a codification for behavior. They didn’t have therapy and psychologists back then, do you see? There was a codification for behavior, for community, how to behave with each other.”
“That has evolved and has been rapidly evolving in the last one hundred years, and so the codifications have outlived their purpose, and what is now taking place is that ones are waking up. They’re starting to say, ‘Well why should I follow this if my being, my conscience, my intuition says I should do this, do something different.’ Then there is a struggle that happens because ones have been faithful to the religion, the code, that one is brought up in. And yet more and more are saying, ‘I have to follow what I sense within’, or there is a denial of self that hurts, creates pain and struggle. So more and more are doing such. When some continue to attempt to hold the codes and even rigidify them further, there is a sense of contraction that happens because there is fear. Whenever there is fear underneath something there is contraction, a holding, and wanting to keep people in control or keep yourself in control because of the fear. What is happening is that this is growing beyond the control of many because as more and more are evolving this consciousness in the body it is going out into the wavelengths of the collective consciousness so there is more and more openness. Faith, pure faith, can serve this if the faith is not faith in the code, but faith in the Source. They are faithful to that which leads them, that which loves them, that which heals them, that which gives them hope. But sometimes there is an attachment to the form, the religion, the priest, the church, the minister or whatever as a means of having something familiar again, do you see? But pure faith is not to the form but to the transcendent, the Source.”
WE ARE OFTEN TAUGHT THAT IT IS TO THE FORM, THE CODE.
“Yes, that is misleading.”
I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN A VICTIM OF THAT CODIFICATION AND CONTROL POWER. I’M CATHOLIC, GREW UP A CATHOLIC, AND WAS RAISED UNDER ALL THOSE ENCYCLICALS AND DIFFERENT TYPES OF TEACHINGS THAT DID NOT EVEN ALLOW THE POSSIBILITY TO QUESTION THOSE, AND I FELT THAT IT DID NOT APPEAL TO ME INTELLECTUALLY OR DID NOT REST WELL WITH MY HEART IN TERMS OF WHAT I FELT. I THINK THAT WHAT YOU HAVE INDICATED SEEMS TO SUGGEST THAT THERE IS CHANGE GOING ON NOW. THE THEOLOGIANS ARE COMING TOGETHER AND THEY SEEM TO BE ATTEMPTING TO DISPEL A LOT OF THOSE THINGS THAT I FELT WERE IN MY WAY, AND I THINK THE QUESTIONING OF THE VIRGIN BIRTH, THE QUESTIONING OF MEAT ON FRIDAY HAS GONE BY, BUT THOSE KINDS OF THINGS WERE REALLY TO ME MATTERS OF CONTROL. I MAY HAVE MORE PROBLEMS WITH MY BALTIMORE CATECHISM DAYS, BUT I GUESS I REALLY FEEL SOME RELIEF THAT THESE THINGS ARE CHANGING AND I GUESS IT’S MY HOPE THAT IT WILL CONTINUE TO CHANGE SO THAT WE ARE NOT DIVIDED OR SEPARATED CHILDREN OF GOD. I WAS JUST WONDERING, DOES THAT SEEM TO FIT IN WITH WHAT IS HAPPENING IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU WERE PREVIOUSLY TALKING ABOUT, THAT THERE WILL BE A WHOLESOME, MORE GLOBAL PICTURE OF WHAT GOD IS ALL ABOUT, AND A TURNING AWAY OF THESE CODES?
I THINK POPE JOHN XXIII WAS A LIGHT, BUT HE’S ABOUT THE ONLY LIGHT THAT I CAN SEE IN THAT LONG HISTORY OF THE CHURCH. another participant: AND HE FLICKERED OUT MUCH TOO SOON.
“This time is about bringing the light alive in many, not just one or another. This time is about fulfilling the longing in the heart for that direct embodiment connection experience, and to bring that about worldwide, eventually. This will not happen all at once, but you are evolving toward that understanding where one sees that there is one family, one great body with many manifestations of that body or one great being with many forms to express through. Do you see? One heart. And yet ones may begin to see how each religion, each code held a sort of place in the whole. When that can be seen and appreciated, then there is not so much fighting that a particular religion is better and the way, and this one is not the way and we have to convert and save you, or your way is wrong and ours is right and then the wars. Do you see that comes from that?”
“Those who have great need for code or structure or control also have great fear. Do you see? The way to heal fear is with love. Great love will heal great fear, and it isn’t perhaps the love that lets somebody walk all over you, that is not the love we speak of. It is the love that provides, goes to the level where the fear is, and begins to access what is the basic need at that place of fear. Every place there is fear there is a lack somehow, or an incompleteness of that ones evolution or a loss experienced in that place, or a wound.”
DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW I FEEL THAT I HAVE BEEN CONTROLLED? AND HOW THAT HAS STOPPED ME FROM RELEASING AND BEING ABLE TO REACH THAT LEVEL OF LOVE AND SPIRIT THAT IS NOT ENCUMBERED, WHERE THERE IS NO POTENTIAL FOR GUILT?
“Yes, we understand, and that which is your path as it is now is to choose, as you have been. Make choices for yourself based on your heart and your heart’s longing and your heart’s desire. The process is to release that which has been limiting. Release the beliefs, the structures, the emotions that have been attached to those structures, whether it be anger or any other guilt, or any feelings that have been attached to those beliefs and structures. Acknowledge them, recognize them, name them, and then begin to choose to release them. Open to another experience, open to love. Ask for assistance to do that, for there are many who are waking up like you are. There are many who realize that these have been codes and beliefs and systems that have meant to confine and control you rather than serve you and serve your highest good.”
IS THERE ANY SPECIFIC APPROACH THAT I MIGHT USE? BECAUSE IT’S EMBEDDED IN MY PSYCHE AND I’VE BEEN WORKING ON IT, BUT I HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO SEPARATE THAT EARLY INDOCTRINATION FROM MY MIND AND MY HEART. IT’S ALL CONFUSED. BUT I KNOW WHERE I WANT TO BE. I NEED TO SHAKE THAT PAST WITHOUT DENYING ANY SPIRITUAL PURPOSE.
“What is helpful is to do some form of regression or healing to the child aspect of you where the codes were put in. Do you see? Connect to that child with your more adult conscious awareness. Begin to tell him, be with him as another voice. Connect to him. See him, feel him, let him feel whatever he felt. It is also helpful to connect to the child who was free beyond those codes. That, depending on whatever age, had spontaneous impulses and spontaneous experiences be they in nature or directly with spirit or with others. Because of the nature of the divine child, that is natural. So, connecting to the child and then being a voice to that child to say ‘These things are not all true. Do not take them in. Release them. Listen to something else that might serve you better. Listen to your heart.’ In fact, sometimes it is good to say to the child, ‘I would like to learn from you, who you are, what your natural state is, and what your dreams are, what your longings are, what your awareness is’. That is a step to connect to what is more natural, more real within you. Once you get more and more of that sense of realness, of core, of source, of divine within you, it becomes easier to say ‘This no longer serves me. No’.”
CAN WE EXPECT THE APPEARANCE OF ANOTHER GREAT TEACHER LIKE JESUS OR MOHAMMED OR BUDDHA?
“This is an age where that which has been predicted is the return of the Christ consciousness. Most people have expected one being to come. Well, if you want to use the word one in terms of the oneness of consciousness, that is true. The great teacher is arising, not coming down. It is arising up from within the human forms that are present. It is the awakening of the Christ-being consciousness that is the second coming of this time. As that proceeds, you will meet great ones, great beings in the eyes and bodies of those that you previously knew as every day people, because these ones are awakening, arising from within the hidden places that they have been kept. You will also gradually in time see great beings that have not been embodied for some time walking among you, but they will not walk among you until they can walk among you as equals, without being made into another God and then another religion. Do you see the danger?”
I’M CONCERNED ABOUT THE ROLE THAT RELIGION HAS PLAYED IN THE EVOLUTION OF OUR CULTURES AND THE GROWING SELF-ABSORPTION OF MEMBERS OF THIS CULTURE AND THE LOSS OF COMMUNITY. I ALSO SEE THAT WE’VE GIVEN LITTLE MORE THAN PLATITUDES TOWARD IMPROVING THE HUMAN CONDITION. I THINK RELIGION OR ORGANIZED RELIGION HAS PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE SEPARATING US RATHER THAN BRINGING US TOGETHER, AND I’D LIKE YOUR COMMENT ON THAT AND WHAT YOU THINK IT IS THAT’S GOING TO HAPPEN IN A WORLD OF CYNICS, WHERE MANY OF US FEEL THAT WE ARE PART OF A DYING CULTURE, A DYING CIVILIZATION.
“Some things must pass away so that others might be born. When the codes and the structures that are very much a part of your religions, governments, and systems of thought are all put together they form what you would call your civilization, and they have become limiting. They no longer serve the evolutionary plan for the earth. So they in all likelihood will pass away or change or be changed, many of them, because they cannot survive. They cannot exist when they no longer serve for a period of time. What is happening, however, is through the individuals who are choosing love instead of fear, who are choosing to trust themselves and their guidance from within their hearts and acting on that rather than only on what you ‘should’ do from outside, these ones will bring love into the places where there is need. Then there will begin to be a revolution of love from the individuals acting in harmony, but not needing a code or a law to act in harmony. They act in harmony because they are all part of one great consciousness. So they act in synchronization. Someone has coined the term synochracy as another form of government to come which is not the government that is a democracy, but that which is a synchronized motion that begins to take place when enough people are in touch with their own inner system and that is connected to the great system, the great order of the universe. Then there is harmony. Then there is peace. Then there is that which moves without being crystallized. It flows into experience and then releases. If the form is no longer serving, it’s released. Then there is openness for more to come in. That is what begins to feel good.”
“The more you trust what feels to be in harmony, feels to be serving what is needed, and less what people think should happen, then there is a sort of revolution. That is happening in quiet ways, but you can see the outcomes of it everywhere. There are structures in South Africa, Russia, and in the various Arab countries that were quite strong and are now softening. There is much that is taking place that cannot be present any more. They are going through destructive phases while another sense of self and being forms with a greater harmony of community. And sometimes, as you have seen, when disaster strikes there is often a bringing together of people in love to assist each other. Sometimes there are such acts of nature in order to do that.”
I WANT TO SHARE WITH YOU MY GRATITUDE OF WHAT I’VE HEARD YOU SAY. MY GRATITUDE IS THAT IT SOMEHOW VALIDATES WHAT HAS BEEN EVOLVING IN MY OWN SPIRITUALITY. LET ME JUST SHARE THIS WITH YOU A BIT. EVEN THOUGH I WAS RAISED IN A TRADITIONAL RELIGION, I HAVE GRADUALLY LET GO OF THINGS THAT DID NOT RESONATE AS TRUE TO ME. I’M FIFTY-SIX YEARS OLD, AND MORE AND MORE, ESPECIALLY THROUGH THESE LAST TEN YEARS, I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TRUST WHAT’S FEELING RIGHT. I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO TRUST WHAT FEELS TRUE, AND I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO LIVE AND GROW IN WHAT I KNOW IN MY HEART, ALTHOUGH I MAYBE CANNOT EVEN VERBALIZE IT, BUT I KNOW IT’S TRUE BECAUSE IT FEELS TRUE. THE WORLD DOESN’T VALIDATE THAT, BUT I KNOW THAT IT’S TRUE, AND I KNOW WHAT I HAVE CONTINUED TO PURSUE IN MY OWN SPIRITUALITY HAS TO DO WITH THE VERY THING YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. AND I WANT TO SHARE JUST ONE MORE THING. IN MY LEARNING, IN MY TRYING TO GROW IN MY RELATIONSHIP WITH MY CREATOR, IT HAS BECOME NATURAL FOR ME TO REACH OUT FOR SOCIAL JUSTICE. I’VE WORKED VERY HARD IN SOCIAL JUSTICE TO BETTER THE LIVES OF OTHER PEOPLE, NOT BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT THE BOOK SAID, BUT BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT MY HEART SAID AND CONTINUES TO SAY. EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID VALIDATES WHAT I HAVE FELT IS TRUE AND CONTINUE TO FEEL IS TRUE, AND I THANK YOU.
“Thank you for your courage to trust your heart in the midst of those who perhaps do not always validate that for you or for themselves. It takes courage to do so and we are grateful. For if it were not for you, if it were not for those of you who do this, the earth would not evolve into love. It is a personal choice to do so and we cannot make the choice, we are not embodied. It is only for those who are embodied who make the choice for love, particularly at times when it is hard to do so, when it seems that there are other forces that would rather have you do something else. That assists this evolution of love in this plane, and that is the fulfillment of the prophesies. It is up to you and up to your choices in this time. We can only give perspective and we can validate and we can bring energetic experience of love, but we are not able to make choices for you, so thank you for the choice to love.”
AT THE LEVEL YOU RESIDE IN CONSCIOUSNESS, DO YOU HAVE FORCES WORKING IN OPPOSITION TO WHAT YOU HAVE TOLD US AND TO WHAT YOU ARE SAYING?
“No. We do not have forces that would be polarized or in duality where we are. There is at this level only a sense of what is the direct impulse of the Source or Creator that desires to be manifested in various forms or levels. We receive the impulse of the Creator and then bring it into form that can be, in a computer sense, downloaded, so that you can receive it and then implement it. We do not have opposition where we are. That is the human plane and the astral plane just beyond you. These two planes have duality, they have time and space, they have polarizations of black and white and all of that which is the good and bad, etc. That is a dynamic force that you evolve through, but that is not our experience. Some of us have been there in your experience in duality in different times. So we have reference to it, but it does not form our view. In fact, we know that you experience it, but how we see you is as a form of light that has a sort of container that we don’t experience ourselves. We see the form of light that you are with a sort of container. We don’t see specifically your human features the way you see each other.”
I WOULD LIKE TO ASK A QUESTION ABOUT PRAYER. IN THE CATHOLIC TRADITION OF PRAYING, THE APPROACH SEEMED TO BE THAT WHEN YOU PRAYED YOU PETITIONED FOR SOMETHING, OR YOU ASKED FOR SOMETHING, WHETHER IT’S HELP FOR SOMEONE TO GET WELL OR WHAT HAVE YOU. IN A PREVIOUS SESSION, YOU SEEMED TO SAY THAT THE POINT IS NOT TO REACH OUT AND PETITION, BUT TO OPEN YOURSELF UP TO RECEIVE WHATEVER THE BLESSING OF THE SPIRIT WOULD GIVE YOU. I’VE HAD DIFFICULTY ALL MY LIFE PRAYING. I SOMETIMES WOULD GO TO SLEEP WHILE I WAS SAYING THE ROSARY, BUT IT WAS DIFFICULT, AND I HAVE DIFFICULTY UNDERSTANDING OR EVEN FEELING THE MERITS OR THE RESULTS OR THE BENEFITS OF THAT. IS THIS METHOD OF PRAYER IN ANY WAY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE TO OUR GROWING IN THE SPIRIT OF LOVE?
“It is if it feels like it. If it feels like it to you then it is. It is prayer as it has been taught in the code that is most familiar to most of you. It is not the same in the Eastern tradition. In your tradition prayer has been to a sort of entity, sometimes to Jesus or Mary or Saints or to God, but God as a sort of entity who will then respond to you and answer your prayers. What happens is it keeps you in a very childlike position, and it keeps you in a codependent – using the common language – position rather than an evolution of your own being and a trust of your own awareness and senses. That is the way prayer has been taught. Now, it can serve at certain levels of the search or the seeking or the longing to fulfill it. And, as we said earlier, if you ask with a sincere desire to receive, that is so. However, the receiving is the key, and the more one relaxes and opens, the more there is a sense of presence.”
“Presence is what you are seeking. It isn’t necessarily all of the words and all of the answers, but it is the sense, the feeling, the experience, the presence, the love, the awareness that you are divine. You are one with a greater experience and you are loved, but gradually you evolve to the experience that you are the presence of love. It doesn’t matter whether you are loving or being loved, it is all the same. There is no more duality in that, but prayer is a stage when you feel as if you are in need and you open to something that you perceive can fill your need. If that does not feel right, then you begin to just open to your own heart and begin to open to what it says, what it feels, what it wants, what it longs for, and open to the universe, open to the Source, open to your own presence to be more here in this body, in this experience, and then you know peace. Once there is peace there is an awareness that everything you need will be provided, and occasionally you think of something but more often than not you don’t.”
“We will ask you this and then you can talk to us: If you were going to share with a child and it can be your own inner child or a child that you know in the earth, what you know of God, the Source, the Creator, what would you want that child to know, to feel, to open to?”
FIRST OF ALL THAT HE IS A GOOD AND LOVING GOD AS OPPOSED TO A STERN GOD.
“Others, continue to say what you would say to this child.”
THAT THE SOURCE IS NOT NECESSARILY A HE, BUT A COMBINATION OF MASCULINE AND FEMININE.
“So mother/father or that which has a feminine aspect as well. Others?”
WELL I HAVE TO SAY THAT FOR ELEVEN YEARS I HAVE BEEN IN RECOVERY FROM ALCOHOLISM. I WAS CURIOUS AT ONE POINT IN YOUR DISCUSSION ABOUT THE USE OF DRUGS AND ALCOHOL AS AN ATTEMPT TO TRY TO CREATE A FEELING WHERE THE DIRECT EXPERIENCE OF THE TRANSCENDENT IS MISSING. HOWEVER, FROM DAY ONE IN THE PROGRAM OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS I HAVE HAD DIFFICULTY WITH THE “GOD OF OUR UNDERSTANDING” PART OF THE TWELVE STEPS OF ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS. I FIND IT VERY DIFFICULT TO DEFINE THE SPIRITUAL NATURE OF THE PROGRAM ITSELF AND THEN MY OWN SPIRITUALITY BECAUSE OF MY SIMILAR EXPERIENCES WITH BEING TAUGHT ABOUT A GOD OF RETRIBUTION OR A GOD OF FEAR. MY CHILDREN HAVE BEEN BROUGHT UP WITH ESSENTIALLY THE NOTION THAT I HAD TO COME TO BELIEVE IN ORDER FOR A HIGHER POWER TO BE A PART OF MY RECOVERY, THAT THE COLLECTIVE POWER FOR GOOD THAT COMES TOGETHER IN THE MEETING OF MY COLLEAGUES IN THE PROGRAM MUST BY NECESSITY SERVE AS MY HIGHER POWER RATHER THAN BEING ABLE TO USE GOD. THE INTERESTING THING IS THAT MY SPIRITUAL AWAKENING CAME AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF MY RECOVERY WHEN I WAS FACED WITH SUCH AN INCREDIBLE COINCIDENCE AROUND A SANSKRIT POEM THAT APPEARS IN ONE OF THE BOOKS. IT ALSO APPEARED ON ONE OF THE DAILY CALENDARS ON THE VERY DAY I WAS CONFRONTED WITH MY ADDICTION. THE TWO OF THEM TOGETHER SEEMED TO BE JUST TOO COINCIDENTAL FOR WORDS, AND I SUSPECTED THEN THAT A POWER FOR GOOD HAD INTERVENED IN MY LIFE TO SAVE ME FROM THE DISEASE OF ALCOHOLISM. I HAVE NOT YET BEEN ABLE TO RECONCILE THAT AND CALL THAT POWER FOR GOOD, THAT I SUSPECT IT’S SUPPOSED TO BE, GOD.
“That does not matter, that is fine. Your experience of the collective power for good is in some ways a closer description than that of many who would hold the image and use the word God. God has become a crystallized image for many, so that we rarely use it except when we feel that ones will understand what we are speaking of. We do not often use the word God because of what has been attached to it energetically in this consciousness that you share with others. What is true is that this collective powerful good is possible because that goodness is in every aspect of creation whether it be in human form, or plant, animal or rock form. That is all consciousness, all good, desiring to manifest itself purely in a pure reflection of that goodness. That’s the collective power for good, and at times there is an energy that begins to respond when there is openness, and you may not even be fully aware of the openness that is present. There is a response to a desire to open, to shift, to change, to grow, to heal. Synchronicity is a fact of the energy moving to always give you what you need for the highest good. Not only your highest good, but the highest good in a collective sense. So you actually are quite close to how we would describe this. It is difficult to describe, and in truth is beyond description or words, so we do our best, as you do.”
I WOULD WANT A CHILD TO UNDERSTAND SOMEHOW WITH MY HELP TO BE ABLE TO SEE THIS GREATER FORCE IN LIFE. MORE AND MORE I SEE THIS. I FEEL THE PRESENCE MANY TIMES THROUGHOUT THE DAY. I FEEL THE PRESENCE IN ANYTHING OF NATURAL BEAUTY WHETHER IT’S TREES OR FLOWERS OR STONES. I FEEL THE PRESENCE MORE AND MORE IN OTHER PEOPLE. I FEEL THE PRESENCE IN ANIMALS. AND VERY OFTEN I SEE SOMETHING OF BEAUTY. I USED TO SAY “THANK YOU, GOD “, BUT I DON’T DO THAT ANY MORE BECAUSE I SEE SOMETHING OF GOD OR SOMETHING OF THAT SOURCE IN ALL THE BEAUTY THAT I SEE AND I JUST SAY “THANK YOU” BECAUSE IT DOESN’T HAVE TO COME FROM SOME OTHER PLACE. IT IS THERE AND IT IS FULL OF GOODNESS AND IT IS PART OF WHO I AM AND I’M PART OF WHAT IT IS. THAT’S WHAT I’D WANT A CHILD TO UNDERSTAND, THAT I SEE MYSELF AS PART OF ALL THIS GREATER FORCE.
“And most children understand that before they’re taught differently. Most children know that experience but it has not been named or articulated or validated. You could probably sit with the child, with the flowers, and your experiences of wonder of oneness, and mutually experience it and share the experience and have a delightful exchange. They may in time understand in consciousness that that is all they need to understand. Not all the other stuff that in a sense separates them as it separated you from your experience. Things will get simpler.”
IF I MAY ASSUME THE AVERAGE LIFE TO BE ABOUT ONE HUNDRED YEARS, THEN I’M ON THE DOWNWARD SLOPE. I’M AT A POSITION NOW WHERE I CAN DO MORE IN TERMS OF THAT HIGHER ORDER OF THINGS, AND I HAVE BEEN SEARCHING MY MIND IN TERMS OF WHERE TO TURN MY FOCUS. I’VE BEEN LOOKING AT VARIOUS TYPES OF THINGS, AND I’M REALLY IN A DILEMMA ON WHAT DIRECTION I SHOULD GO IN TERMS OF SERVING THIS HIGHER ORDER OF THINGS OF WHICH YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. I KNOW THAT THAT IS UP TO ME, BUT I’VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT IT FOR A LONG TIME AND I CAN’T SEEM TO REACH THAT POINT WHERE I KNOW WHAT WAY I WANT TO GO. IT DOES NOT NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE ONE WAY, BUT IN TERMS OF A GENERAL FOCUS I AM TRULY HOPING THAT I CAN COME TO SOME CONCLUSION ON THIS. I WAS WONDERING IF ANY OF YOU THERE HAD ANY INSIGHT INTO WHERE I SHOULD GO.
“In this particular time (November, 1994) until the end of this year, what is necessary is for ones to pay attention to their own inner promptings and their own inner needs. Begin to realize that you have a power within you to bring these needs and desires and intense promptings to fulfillment by acknowledging them, putting them on paper if you need to as assistance in remembering them, and then opening to how your being begins to meet them. This time is one of growth and awareness. As the cycle shifts toward the end of December there will be much more of an impetus to get a move on and to have more of an action-oriented kind of a response. Collectively the energy is quiet right now. It is not moving in an outer sense. There is more of an inner strengthening taking place. So right now our suggestion would be to daily, if not more than once daily, pay attention to what you are feeling, what your needs are, what your desires are, what your promptings are, and breathe into those. Breath is quite important, for it opens you energetically when you consciously breathe. That is in every tradition, less in the Western tradition, but when you consciously breathe you expand and open. There is a sense of drawing in what you need. Pay attention is the other thing. Pay attention to what shows up in your experience be it a person, a book, an idea, a prompting to do this or go there or to be with this person. You find yourself in some ways learning by osmosis. You draw it in all the time rather than only through a specific means. Your being doesn’t need a specific teacher only or a specific means to serve, it begins to be like you are, present.”
THAT IS OCCURRING NOW. I GUESS MY QUESTION WAS WHETHER OR NOT IT IS MORE OF A FOCUS TOWARDS ONE DIRECTION THE WAY IT IS NOW BECAUSE OF SOME MAYBE ERRONEOUS PSYCHOLOGICAL TREPIDATION OF WHO I AM OR WHAT I COULD DO.
“Different forms will serve you at different times. Just don’t attach to them forever. Because they will serve you and then they will be done and then you will open to more.”
I, ALSO, WOULD ALSO LIKE TO ASK ABOUT WHERE I AM AND WHERE I’M GOING.
“Well, we don’t give too many previews right now partly because this is a time where you are to pay attention to what is in your heart, what is in your sense of what you need, what is in your intent to create, your impulses and to actively know. Actively know that you are the source of its fulfillment. That’s a pretty wonderful stage or step of development, of this evolution of soul. Right now there is a great big open space for everyone who wishes to be in this evolutionary path together to do that. So we would not serve you if we gave you previews because that would take away what is your soul’s intent and opportunity to pay attention to the signals and the signs and the feelings and the awarenesses and the desires and the impulses and moment to moment day by day way, because out of that you create. You embody that creator energy for yourself and then the world. Do you understand this?”
BEFORE WE BEGAN THERE WAS A LITTLE DISCUSSION ABOUT ANOTHER CHANNELING SESSION WHERE THOMAS JEFFERSON, BEN FRANKLIN AND A NUMBER OF PEOPLE SHOWED UP. EARLIER IN THIS SESSION YOU SAID THAT THEY WERE MASONS AND THAT THEY HAD A PARTICULAR UNDERSTANDING AND ABILITY TO ACCESS KNOWING. WOULD YOU JUST COMMENT ON WHAT THEIR PERSPECTIVE WAS AT THE TIME THEY WERE AROUND AND WHAT THEY HOPED TO DO IN THIS COUNTRY?
“Even they were limited in the complete vision of what was taking place, but they were receptive to enough of it to implement it. They coded this land, this government, in your Declaration of Independence and some of the other proclamations and things that were given and spoken at that time. They energized this particular place to be a culmination place for all peoples of all religion, of all races, of all languages, of all cultures to come together in one place as equal. Their awareness was that there needed to be a place on the earth that was an image and a form of that oneness that they knew in their hearts was the destiny of humankind. They knew in their hearts, they knew in their minds, they spoke from the energy of that unity as they put it into forms that would begin to structure this growing nation enough to get in from infancy into adolescence. You are just barely through adolescence, in a sense. You are just growing into what would be the awareness of a destiny. Most do not have that in awareness. That is coming in the ones who are growing in consciousness at this time. But they had enough of a vision to code it and to energize it into form. That is why many still long to come here. It is a beacon that all are welcome and all can be present here. It is showing that there is a way to come to bring more of the potential of self to be present here. To call that forth, to set it free. Yes, there are many limitations that have grown as well, that have been brought along as well, but largely there has been growth beyond the feudal systems, beyond the rigid thought forms that held others in even more rigid forms than the Catholic church has been in recent years.”
WERE THOSE EARLY FOUNDERS MORE OPEN TO THEIR HEART RATHER THAN SOME GENERAL CODIFICATION?
“They were pioneers. They had broken with what were their roots which allowed them to open to what was coming in as new. They were open to the new. They were excited by that. It was an energy that they shared amongst themselves and it fueled the revolution. It fueled the Declaration of Independence. It fueled the opening of this time, this nation, this land. They had broken with their previous lives, they had left behind, they had released. Whenever you release, whenever you let go there is more space for what is coming, what wants to take form through you.”
THERE HAS BEEN A LOT OF TALK IN THE LAST TEN YEARS IN TERMS OF INDIVIDUALS BEING ISOLATED. I ATTENDED A LECTURE NOT TOO LONG AGO WHERE THE THESIS WAS THAT THE EDUCATIONAL SYSTEM IS IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SEPARATION. THE SPEAKER SAID THAT AROUND THE TWELFTH CENTURY THERE WAS A SWITCH TO MORE OF A SPECIALIZATION IN TERMS OF THE DISCIPLINE, AND DISCIPLINE SUBDIVIDED AND SPECIALIZED. AS A RESULT OF THAT THE GENERALIZATION OF KNOWLEDGE AS WELL AS THE HUMANITY OF PEOPLE WAS SOMEHOW DROPPED OUT. WHAT HE WAS SAYING, AS I UNDERSTOOD HIM, IS THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM AN INFUSION INTO ALL OF THESE DISCIPLINES WHAT MAN’S RESPONSIBILITY IS TOWARDS MAN. THAT IS QUITE A CHALLENGE, BUT IT SEEMS TO ME THAT IT’S KIND OF RELATED TO WHAT CONFUCIUS THOUGHT WITH HIS PRINCIPLES OF HOW SOCIETIES SHOULD FUNCTION AND THE VALUE IN TERMS OF THEIR FELLOW MAN. I’M WONDERING ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF THIS THESIS. IT MADE SENSE TO ME AS FAR AS NOT BEING A FULL ANSWER BUT OF AT LEAST BEING IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF THOUGHT AND HOW WE RELATE TO EACH ANOTHER.
“You can see that as the development of specialization or specification happened the sense of the whole or the whole picture began to get lost, and both ends actually began to get dropped out. The sense of the whole and the understanding of the interrelationship of the specifics to each other was lost. That is one piece. The other piece is how it is received in the individual. When you have all of the specialization and belief that what is over there is separate from what is over here, then the individual one also feels fragmented. The experience of aloneness is the experience of a fragmented soul or self without the interrelationship of the fragments or the parts. And so, wherever you stand in that place there is a sense of aloneness or apartness from other aspects of self within and self without. Therefore, aloneness. So both are needed to come back to bring the fragments of self back together in order to see the interrelationship of the specifications together and the big picture of how all of this serves one another rather than not.”
HOW DO YOU THINK THAT WILL BE DONE?
“By those whose passion is either the whole picture who bring that into view and begin to form the bridges between the disciplines, as well as by those who have a passion for wholeness in their own integrity of themselves and who wish to share that with others. Integrity means that you are put together. You come from the central core of self and you act as that. Individuals who have become integrated and act in integrity and wholeness wish to share that with others and assist others to do that for themselves on an individual level as well as on the interrelational level of systems.”
DO YOU HAVE ANY SPECIFIC INSTRUCTIONS FOR ME ON MY BRIDGE BUILDING?
“Pursue it with gusto. Don’t let anything hold you back, and just go forward. Whenever you have a passion and you feel drawn into an experience of moving, allow the energy of that to move you. When there is a passion, and the more you put into it, the more energy you let flow into it without stopping it or guarding it, the more it happens. Bridging is a part of your own integration and a part of a collective integration as well. That may be your part. There are many who are placed in positions in the collective who are bridges. It is their passion to bring disciplines together to form a mutual benefit and through that begin in a collective sense to heal what was described earlier.”
IN MY SEARCH FOR WHOLENESS AND TRUTH AM I TO CONTINUE ON THE PATH I’M ON OR ARE THERE CHANGES I SHOULD BE MAKING TO BECOME THE BEST I CAN BECOME. IS THERE ANY ADVICE YOU MIGHT HAVE FOR ME?
“The only advice is to trust that which is already happening and continue to open, because you are doing quite well and your being is in charge. Your essence, your presence, your soul is in charge of your own evolution. If there is need for greater knowledge in one area or another or if there is need for experience you will draw it to yourself. What we like to tell people is that the more you relax into who you are and what you feel and experience, the more you lose the sense of the search and of having to go after something, because it comes to you. So allow it. Sometimes you get what you need in the most unexpected ways. It seems that being, spirit, likes to move in ways that startle the mind out of its complacency of knowing. So every time you think you know, what happens? Something unexpected. That is the action of your being opening to you the fulfillment of what you have asked for, but not the way you expected it to come. Keep laughing with a smile on your face, that helps too. When you are in joy what does your body do? It relaxes. When you are happy you relax. So the happier you are the more expanded you become. The more open you are, the more you draw to yourself an experience of transcendence, beauty, and wonder, and more joy is the result. Sometimes what happens, however, is you run into you own limits to joy. Then there is a little contraction to go into the places where those limits are being encountered and where they have been attached or held in the psyche, the emotions, the body, etc. As you access them with attention, with acknowledgment, with love, with acceptance, and with intent and choice, respond to whatever they need and then release them. Then you have even more expansion and joy and awareness and openness, etc.”
SO WHEN WE PASS ON TO THE LIFE BEYOND, THAT POTENTIAL FOR GROWTH IS UNLIMITED?
“Yes. It is unlimited. You are unlimited, and you have been growing a very long time, evolving, and you continue. There is no stopping because you are eternal. You are of the eternal essence that creation is manifested from.”
COULD YOU SPEAK OF THE LEVELS OF EXISTENCE BEYOND THIS HUMAN FORM? THERE ARE MANY PEOPLE WHO ARE UNSURE, AND I MAY BE AMONG THEM, ABOUT THE EXISTENCE OF THAT PLANE. PERHAPS AGAIN, BACK TO BEING SOMEWHAT SKEPTICAL ABOUT THE HEAVEN, HELL, PURGATORY BUSINESS OF CATHOLICISM, BUT MORE THAN THAT HARD TO FATHOM WHAT THAT MAY BE LIKE PERHAPS SO FAR AS WHAT VALUE IT HAS IN THE LARGER UNIVERSE.
“That which you are, your soul, your essence, is not limited to this body. It is not limited to this form. Have you ever had the dream of flying?
“So you are very aware of a body that has not been limited by gravity. That is your etheric body. It is just like your physical body, but it is not dense. It is not bound by gravity like this particular cellular body. At nighttime that body is free to travel, to move about. In some books it is called astral travel where you are free to move about. You wake up realizing that you have been flying. Well, you have been. Your body has been resting in bed. Now, that is one step. There is like a cord that continues to pull you back to your body so you can get up and function in your physical form the next day.”
“However, when the silver cord is cut, it is just like an umbilical cord that cuts the child from the mother. Then the spirit flies. It continues. Now once beyond the body there are some choices. If one does not know that they are dead or realized that the cord has been cut, then there is a time where they continue to act as if they would just do the same things. You’d go to work, you’d do the same things. However, it soon becomes apparent that no one responds to you when you talk, and there grows to be a frustration. Some are attached to the body, some are attached to particular people, some are attached to places. You call them ghosts, and they don’t go on for different reasons. However, in the natural evolution, what is natural is that the etheric body is just like you. You look around and you see that there is a light that you are drawn to. Oftentimes friends and family that you recognize from previous relationships in this body are present, and you go into an experience that we have been speaking of, a transcendence of light, of power, of love that embraces you and welcomes you, and you make a transition.”
“During that transition you are facilitated and helped by those who love you. If there has been a severe physical trauma or an illness, then there is a period of healing. All of this happens while the body is no longer present in a physical, active sense, but your etheric body is very present, very real. You continue to exist, and that is proven over and over again by those who have encounters with those that they have loved who are on the other side who say ‘I just saw my brother’ or ‘I know that presence’ from when they experienced the presence when they were at a funeral. Oftentimes that person is yet present. They come to the funeral. They watch the whole thing. Wouldn’t you want to see everybody and hear what they say about you.”
I’M NOT CERTAIN THAT I WOULD! (laughter)
“Well, many do. It is nice to have ones reflect upon you, because oftentimes you have not reflected upon yourself in that way and you have not known how you have affected others. It would be nice to know now, wouldn’t it?”
OH YES. I THINK THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS MISSING IN OUR LIVES.
“Yes. When you begin to acknowledge yourselves and acknowledge others for who they are it feels so good that you begin to do that more and more. Part of the gift we can give self and others is to acknowledge and see them and then reflect back to them and let them know how they have affected us. Do you wish us to go on? There is more. Is this generally of interest?”
YES, YOU’VE REALLY PIQUED MY INTEREST NOW. I THINK YOU’VE DESCRIBED SOMETHING I FRANKLY JUST DIDN’T NECESSARILY BELIEVE. I FIND IT EXTRAORDINARY THAT THE ETHERIC BODY CONTINUES TO HEAL, AND THAT PERHAPS IN THE MIND’S EYE ONE DOES NOT REALIZE THEY’VE ACTUALLY DIED.
“Yes, that happens.”
THAT PUZZLES ME. HOW IS IT THAT THEY WOULD NOT KNOW THAT?
“Because you feel like you and you are in the place where others are that are familiar to you, and yet they do not see you or respond to you, but you can see them and you can talk to them.”
THIS SOUNDS LIKE A 1930’S MOVIE. IT’S EXTRAORDINARY IF IT’S FOR REAL.
“Many have witnessed, have experienced this. There are many out of body experiences or people who have near death experiences who describe this, this plane of being able to see everyone in the room but not being in their body, seeing their body as well, and not knowing what happened, that they are apart and conscious. But ones do so, and then if they release to that light that is calling to them, then there is a whole other experience that opens up. What happens is you begin to take on an identification gradually as you make the transition over a period of time. You begin to see that your life has been sort of a journey, but that this is your real home and you were just in that life temporarily to learn something. That you designed your life to do that. When you accomplished what your soul had in mind, in the blueprint, given the choices that you made, you look at all of that and you see how you did in your own lesson plan. There is no judgment from any other source. You just look at it and you see, and then you make adjustments and you start saying, ‘Well this looks like what I need to do next’. Just like you do when you finish a job here on the earth and then you re-evaluate and say ‘Well this feels like what I’d like to do next’.”
WELL, THAT SEEMS WONDERFUL IN THIS CONTEXT IN THIS SETTING. WHAT ABOUT A CRIMINAL WHO DIES, PERHAPS BY VIOLENCE, PERHAPS BY EXECUTION. TELL ME A LITTLE, IF YOU WILL, ABOUT THAT.
“It depends on where they are, and no one outside can truly judge. If they have a sense of themselves as moving beyond this life, they too will be drawn to the light and they will then look at their choices and their lives and do the same process. However, those who are attached to this life, to power or addictions, etc., may remain in the astral plane. Addictions will keep one in an astral body or astral plane more so than other things because there is a substance that is physical that is perceived to be needed to continue existence. That need continues to attach them to the human physical plane even though they are no longer physical. Do you want stories? If you go to bars or places where there is much drug abuse of other substances that are addictive, you will find that if you look on a psychic plane that there are many spirits waiting to inhabit bodies who either pass out or loose consciousness or who are very close to that, in order to have a fix, of sorts, of their particular addiction. That is why it is difficult to heal from addiction, an active addiction, because if that is part of your experience, there are those invested in keeping you addicted, from that plane. There are those who come from higher levels to work with these ones, but unless they make the choice to go to the light or go to the other side, they cannot be helped by us. They can be helped at times by ones who perceive them from the physical plane because they think they are not visible after awhile and that they can get away with things. But if they are told no, that they can no longer do that, and the vehicles are removed for them, then often their alternative is for them to continue to evolve or grow and move on.”
THE ASTRAL PLANE IS IMMEDIATELY AFTER DEATH?
“Unless you move to the light you get caught there, and in some ways it is what the Catholics refer to as purgatory. It is an in-between state where it is not completely physical and it is not released to spirit. There is an in-between state. There are even ones sitting around in uniforms from past wars, yet not continuing their evolution and caught in time, in their time.”
WHAT ARE THEY DOING? WHAT IS IT THEY DO THERE?
“They sit around, some of them. They don’t do much of anything.”
THERE’S NO PURSUIT OF THE LIGHT? THERE’S NO PURSUIT OF THE TRUTH?
“Some of them feel as if they have done something that is unforgivable because of their perception of God from what they were taught. When they are discovered or seen, some of them even have a need to go to confession or have some kind of reconciliation or healing. Some want to get messages to people that they did not get messages to. They are attached to people. Some are still taking care of people or feel that they can’t let go of that role, that they are yet in some dependent role with another in the earth. Some don’t want to go because so and so is on the other side.”
REALLY! SO THEY HAVE A CHOICE?
“Yes, it’s choice.”
I GREW UP IN A HOUSEHOLD WITH AN AUNT WHO LIVED WITH US, AND THE AUNT DIED SIX YEARS AGO. SHE LOVED ME VERY DEARLY. I HAVE MANY EXPERIENCES WITH HER PRESENCE. I HAVE MANY EXPERIENCES WHERE I KNOW FRANNIE IS THERE AND I DON’T KNOW WHY THAT DOESN’T BOTHER ME. SOMETIMES I’LL TELL MY HUSBAND THAT FRANNIE WAS IN MY KITCHEN, OR THAT I TALKED TO FRANNIE OR THAT FRANNIE WAS AROUND. I FEEL HER PRESENCE BUT I HAVE NOT UNDERSTOOD WHY. I GUESS I’M NOT SURE I STILL DO, BUT SOMEHOW IT HAS VALIDATED THAT SOMEHOW SHE IS INDEED STILL THERE.
“If beings continue to the other side and they make a full transition, then they have the opportunity to come back through the veil – this is one way of saying it – to be present with family members, or to even be of assistance or guidance. Sometimes they are facilitating an awareness that there is more than the physical senses and because they are familiar to you they help you believe in the other side or life beyond this life. They also can come back to give messages, whatever. But, they do not stay. They go back. They come for awhile and then they go back. It is not the same for beings in the astral plane. The astral plane is sort of gooey. It gets sticky. They are stuck until they make a choice to go beyond it.”
CAN YOU SEE OR OBSERVE OR ARE AWARE OF THOSE PEOPLE THAT ARE IN THAT STAGE, THAT STICKY STAGE?
“We can go looking for them. If someone is asking where someone is, at times we’ll find them there. It is not the part of we who are gathered here to work among them. For some, that is their part, to continuously be present and add love and guidance to those who are in that plane or to at times facilitate through human ones who have the capacity to see them. They will work as a team to assist these ones to make this choice. This plane of existence is needing to clear out, so to speak. It is not intended to get bigger, it is intended to evolve its way out of the path, out of the sequence.”
IS IT GETTING MORE CROWDED?
“Actually, it’s getting clearer all the time. More and more beings are being facilitated to leave and move to complete their transitions. So, it actually is lighter and clearer than it has been for a quite long time.”
IS THERE A REASON FOR THIS?
“Yes. Because the activity of the ones who are embodied that are also helping these ones leave.”
SO THERE ARE FOUR LEVELS, ESSENTIALLY OR ARE THERE MORE? INCLUDING THE HUMAN EMBODIED LEVEL.
“You ask us to speak in linear terms.”
WELL YOU’VE SPOKEN THAT THERE IS A PATHWAY, THERE ARE LAYERS.
“Yes, and that is what we have spoken to, but when you want us to define it into levels we start to hesitate. Partly because all of them are present all of the time. Yet there is that which continues to evolve and if you wish to say four levels that would be sufficient even though within them, as you get to the higher levels, they expand. And so they are graduated.”
“Yes, you would experience gradations within them and the ultimate, the highest – we don’t like to use the words highest and lowest because that’s dualistic – but that is Source itself. There is no more individuation beyond that. It is just pure essence, pure light.”
YOU MENTIONED THAT SOME OF YOU HAVE GONE THROUGH THESE PLANES AND OTHERS HAVE NOT. THOSE WHO HAVE NOT, HOW DO THEY COME INTO EXISTENCE? HOW DID YOU COME INTO EXISTENCE?
“There are other pathways of evolution beyond the earth. And so, some have gone through an evolutionary pathway without coming through the earth to do so. Others, their nature individuated in such a way that in a sense the Creator had need for ones to resonate, vibrate, to hold a certain frequency or energy in the whole. That has been their part and some of our part for eternity. We individuate only so much as we access an intent of the Source or the impulse of Divine Will to bring it into the next level that is ours to relate to. But there are those whose part it is to hold that frequency, that place, and they can make a choice to evolve and to move into human form such as Jesus who came from that place and chose human form as a means of inserting the impulse directly into the embodiment. It is like an injection or inoculation. It brings that light into the collective consciousness directly. But that was an act of love on the part of that being to do so, because he did not have to.”
DO YOU SEE JESUS AS PART OF THE SOURCE THEN?
“We see you as part of the Source.”
CAN I ASK WHO WE ARE TALKING TO TODAY?
“Well, we have a collection of us. Some as we are speaking are like what we are describing to this one right now who come from this level but who have not had personal embodiment. There are those who have had personal embodiment, and if you must know the one we referred to earlier, Pope John as you knew him – we don’t know him that way – is here to give assistance since your questions were on religion and many of you are Catholic, this one decided to be present. Then there are several that are facilitating the channeling who are able to work with this energy field to facilitate those who aren’t used to this energy field.
ARE YOU IN CONSTANT RELATIONSHIP WITH THE CREATOR?
“Yes, and so are you. However, the difference is that we are aware of it and you are growing in awareness of it.”
THIS PURSUIT OF AWARENESS CONTINUES BEYOND THE EMBODIMENT AND THROUGH THESE PLANES. IS THAT CORRECT?
UNTIL THE SOURCE.
“Yes, and in this plane beyond, when you say go to the light and then there is this plane you may refer to as heaven. There are gradations within that plane as well. At some of the first levels of it there are communities and cities and places that look very much like yours on earth. Not dirty, however. There are places of learning, places where there are great schools. There are places where there are inventors and minds that continue to bring in new forms and then bring them into the plane of the conscious mind of those on earth ready to receive them. There are those who actually create little communities where what is familiar is recreated until they decide to evolve beyond that. So they recreate a little community to play cards and to rest in peace because they thought that is what it was.”
“You are creators. You don’t know that, but you do on the other side create just like you do here. Here it is physical, on the other side it is an etheric pattern or form, but it feels pretty real. And when ones wake up there they start to realize ‘Oh, I don’t have to play cards for eternity’ or ‘I don’t have to sit in this sort of place for eternity. I can continue to grow.’ And so then they are guided to make another choice among several options or choices.”
IS IT ALL WITHIN A SPIRITUAL CONTEXT?
“There is great love. It is within a love context, and beings such as angelic presences are often more manifest there in a sense that they are more perceived, more experienced. Part of the whole experience is often with beings that would be considered angelic or beings of light. So, that is common on the other side.”
I HAVE AN AUNT WHO IS CONSIDERED TO BE CRAZY BY MOST EVERYBODY IN OUR FAMILY. SHE IS ECCENTRIC IN THE EXTREME. SHE HAS WRITTEN A MONOGRAPH IN HER OWN BELIEF THAT ANGELS AND NOT APES ARE THE MISSING LINKS IN HUMAN EVOLUTION. WHAT COMMENTS WOULD YOU MAKE ABOUT THAT?
“There are some aspects of truth. In the sense that Divine Presence, angelic beings, beings of Light first inhabited this plane, this earth, as it was created. It was first inhabited as a playground for Divine Presence. It was designed as a paradise, a playground for those who wish to play in form, in manifesting, in creation, to be creating in a greater density. What happened was that as ones were invited in, some vibrations began to come in that were dualistic. The dualistic energies began to densify the matter of the body more and more so, and gradually the bodies had to change from more etheric forms into denser forms. In the process of that there was a great flood, great destruction that we will not go into because that is a longer story, and afterwards there was a release of energy to the earth herself to then bring this form into consciousness again. Now the forms did not evolve in a sense so much out of an ape but that which was the consciousness was brought together with the form that was available in the earth to make the transition from etheric into matter. And so there is a jump of sorts. So the angels had something to do with it. Do you understand?”
WELL, I’M CERTAINLY ATTEMPTING TO.
“What happens is that your aunt gets a piece of the story. Somehow she has opened and received some image or perception or information. However, she may be attached to it because she is not being validated. If you are not validated or you are not acknowledged, then there is a desire to prove it or attach to it. Then it gets worse.”
ARE YOU SUGGESTING THE DENSIFICATION OF THESE ETHERIC BODIES TOOK THE FORM OF EARLY EVOLUTIONARY MATTER OR HAS SCIENCE HAS BEEN LEADING US DOWN THE PRIMROSE PATH? THESE ARE THE FISH, FLYING FISH AND MOVING ONWARD TOWARD THE PRIMATES AND THEN TO THE EVOLUTION OF HUMANKIND?
“It’s both. They have a piece of the story, but not the whole story. When the densification became apparent, the bodies could no longer be present etherically and create in matter because the dualistic nature was evolving and creating that separation. It could no longer be effective here that way. There had to be a design of a form that could be effective. So soul began to inhabit the highest primates available to evolve from that. In a sense there was a mating of spirit and form at another level and because the highest primates brains weren’t big enough there was some manipulation during the end time of that old time to make skulls big enough so that a soul with consciousness could inhabit it. That is some of what has been the beginnings of Cro-Magnon man, etc.”
I’M CURIOUS TOO, ON THE ISSUE OF THE DUALITY THAT PERVADED THE PARADISE. WHY THAT DUALITY, FOR WHAT REASON WAS THAT GENERATED?
“Well, two things. For one, it had already manifested in the universe as a whole. It was already present and it also was the dynamic force that was allowed here to assist an evolution of the Source, of Creation, of God. God is not static. There is an evolution of Creation as well, an expansion, and the dynamic force of the interaction of duality creates a sort of energy. And it also brings an opportunity for those who are designed to evolve through choice a perfect opportunity because you are always choosing. For awhile you think you have to choose between good and evil. Gradually you become aware that you choose a third. You choose a Presence of Love which encompasses both good and evil.”
I HAVE FELT COMPELLED NOT TO ASK ANY PERSONAL QUESTIONS FOR FEAR THAT IT WILL BE ASKING FOR A FUTURE ASSESSMENT. PERHAPS YOU ARE AWARE THAT I HAVE SOME PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS. I BATTLE WITH MYSELF THINKING ABOUT THE NEXT SEVERAL MONTHS AND YEARS AS TO WHICH DIRECTION I MIGHT GO IN CONTRIBUTING TO MY COMMUNITY. PERHAPS YOU KNOW WHAT I’VE DONE AND PERHAPS YOU KNOW WHAT I MIGHT DO, GIVEN MY PHYSICAL LIMITATIONS.
“First we would say you are on the threshold of opening through your own perceived limitations to a most exciting experience or period of your life by opening that door of your perceived limitations, physical or any other perceptions. Because you have a very strong and sincere desire to align with good, that will propel you. Also because you find it difficult not to speak of what you experience or sense to be true, that also will come through you into your community. Do you understand?”
I DO. I CAN’T KEEP MY MOUTH SHUT IS WHAT YOU’RE SAYING. (laughter)
“Yes. But that serves others. It is not by accident or fault, it is your part. It is your part to be who you are and that is who you are.”
THANK YOU FOR BEING HERE WITH US THIS EVENING.
“It is our pleasure. It is our joy. We have a great amount of fun doing this. We hope you do too. Please open to receive and we join you in a closing blessing of sorts that you would take home and bring with you to others. So as you open, please receive that which enhances your greatest desires and needs in this time. Breathe it in, embody it, receive it fully. Know that as you receive it it is yours. It enhances, expands, magnifies who you are and then your gift is more present for others. It has been truly our joy to be with you, to share with you in this way. We thank you for inviting us, for drawing us into your experience. Please know that whatever has been of good that you have received, that it is a part of you. It is not because of us. It is because of you and who you are and what you have opened to receive. In this time it has been again our joy and we do take our leave. Thank you.”